One from LBA
3394 Dublin (DUB
) Aer Lingus AT
76 EI-FAX Diverted to MAN
EI-EXE B737 diverting in from Dublin
Yes, the first 4 RYR
diverted to LPL
and we got the 5th. EI
were landing ok at DUB
despite the strong cross winds.
A Flybe DH8D diverted in this morning due to a door problem, was en route East Mids to somewhere.
This came from BHX
954 Frankfurt (FRA
) Lufthansa A321 D-AIRL
Quoting david_itl, from a previous post
This came from BHX
954 Frankfurt (FRA
) Lufthansa A321 D-AIRL
I was watching that on FR
It seemed to go around, circle a bit then head north. Maybe the runway was temporarily blocked. A BE
Trash 8 left shortly afterwards although another incoming BE
seemed to retain altitude right up to BHX
1977 after 2 attempts at DUB
seems to be diverting to BHX
even though the winds favour MAN
Did we refuse him, although when I checked there wasn't a 'no divs' notam issued? Did someone slip up and forget to issue it with the bad weather forecast?? Oh dear.
Whisper it guys, but is the Beluga A300 diverting to MAN
Beluga F-GSTF diverting in from Chester
Well our flybe from ABZ
is giving up after 2 attempts and diverting to LPL
where the latest wx was 270 at 39kt g52kt. I suppose it's because it's down the runway that puts it within limits.
The usual problem I see as soon as we have wind gusts >40kt even if the direction is not a cross-wind to any degree. MON
off to EMA
by the looks of it, EIR has had 2 attempts so I imagine he'll be off somewhere. TK
and another MON
already had 1 go-around.
It seems we did get a RYR
divert earlier though from LBA
My brother is on the ZB
655 from AGP
. It made one attempt to land but aborted while very low over the airfield. It didn't bother with a second attempt and just went straight to EMA
Just got a TXT to say lots of people were sick and they are glad to be being bussed up from EMA
Some problems at DUB
, presumably due wind. LH
980 diverting somewhere.
And he arrived MAN
EI-DAE Ryanair also diverted in ex DUB
722 on finals for MAN
, a B757 DUB
D-AIKQ Lufthansa A330 presently diverting into Manchester due in about 15 mins DUS
196 diverting in - a PRG
Some pretty grotty wx around at BHX
as well. Within Cat2 limits generally though.
348 diverted from LBA
) a b757.
STK09L to here EI-FMJ arrived 1050.
Eastern to MME
731 to DSA
2047 to LPL
Basically scattered across the North! We don't have a nasty 'no div' notam in place.
This diverted in around tea time, after turning around over Ireland.
) Thomas Cook Airlines 242
Departure: Mon - Dec 21, 2015
Equipment: Airbus A330-200 (Scheduled)
Seems to have been missed, Arkefly 787 diverted in last Friday (I think) on the way from Ams to Mia due generator problem. PHTFL
div STK09L to here EI-FMJ arrived 0920.
Trivia time - unless LHR
suddenly closes, 2015 will have been the 'worst' year for diversions to here.
09/04/2015 G-BZHA B763 SHT9U EDI
That was it!!!
and just 3 from LGW
Make that4 from LGW
009 A6-EEJ just diverted in due to strong winds
A380's landed within 90min
From another forum, it seems we've had 4 diversions from LBA
this evening. 3 x LS
and 1 x flybe.
978 just diverted in from DUB
. An A321.
No more divs to MAN
but just before 1pm there were at least 16 a/c in the hold or trying approaches for DUB
. At one stage, I watched 5 successive attempted approaches which all had to go-around.
They've now switched to R2
8 and it looks like a/c are getting in, but a while back there was a line of 6 flights all heading for SNN
& IBS went to BFS
Slightly surprised that some of the EI
flights holding over the Irish Sea didn't do an about turn and come to LPL
- apart from the LH
& IBS went to BFS
It seems the TK
diverted to GLA
. Didn't he divert to BHX
on a previous occasion when there were wind problems at DUB
? Perhaps our weather today was a bit dodgy with cross-winds for him, or is MAN
out of favour? Don't think the infamous notam was out.
Quoting MANDIV, from a previous post
Perhaps our weather today was a bit dodgy with cross-winds for him, or is MAN out of favour? Don't think the infamous notam was out.
Was at the Airport pub (again) today for an hour, around 12.30. The wind didn't seem to cause any issues at all really, a few wobbles but nothing too drastic.
As a side note - the pub had their garden closed, which I thought was way over the top - wasn't even raining! Had to watch from the car park!
G-EUPW diverting from LBA
finals at 10.05
2 early morning DIVS from LPL
There were also two diversions on Thursday. SHT from Newcastle in the morning and Eastern 145 from Hawarden in the evening.
I see several a/c holding for some time and Finair diverted. What is the problem?
Runway closed due to pot hole this morning 2nd runway still snow covered was on single runway ops 2nd runway was then cleared for arrivals
just gone to SNN
without too much hanging about. We don't have any NOTAMs in place so guess just pilot preference to stay in Ireland.
going to be gusting 50kts until midday, so one to watch.
Not in favour today
Maybe it's all those 'no div' notams that pilots remember!
Looks like LH
978 has given up, heading towards MAN
, though can't confirm if coming to MAN
Gone back to Frankfurt!
6519 EI-DWO Krakow-Leeds diverting in and on finals at 1550.
arrived 0735 ex PIK
Might be worth keeping an eye on Heathrow on single runway ops due to BA
747 stuck on runway with Port undercarriage retracted.
Using both runways now so just a bit of a back log to clear
Quoting Betablockeruk, from a previous post
Not in favour today Maybe it's all those 'no div' notams that pilots remember!
Returned from Spain yesterday evening. If all the a/c just parked up on the Western Apron and on the 80s and 230/240s stands in the middle section is typical day to day, then the chances of MAN
getting many wide-body / long haul diversions before Easter must be fairly remote, unless some of those a/c fly out early mornings and create space.
D-ACNX CRJ diverting from Newcastle and HB-JYJ A319 looks like diverting from Leeds
Also Mon G-ZBAP ALC
aalso HB-JVE ZRH
Flybe DH8 today en route BB-PH
, technical problem.
681C) diverting to MAN
Had a Ryanair from Cardiff - not had a Cardiff div in years.
3 got into LHR
on 3rd attempt - thought there was a unwritten 'divert on 2nd go around' rule!!
Probably would have gone to CDG
but was ready with the various emails if he'd said MANCHESTER!!
I think it was 10 go-arounds I saw at LHR
, including the 2 by QR
3. I suspect if the wind had been slightly more southerly rather than the WSW direction, there would have been more problems.
has just gone round but it's so quiet as I write, there isn't even any holding.
7346 G-EZDB recently diverted from LBA
due to wind.
M-HPIN, G-CELK, G-JZHD are further noted LBA
For the second time this week, MAN
is the only main UK
airport to be affected by fog.
A bit more serious this morning and dear old BA
shuttle couldn't wait to get off to LPL
Why can't they carry extra fuel like other airlines?
Currently 1hr 30 mins delays at 11.00 for departures due to single runway operations
tell me about it! Just disembarked the 0855 Belfast flight. Not going anywhere fast.....
(First time I've ever done that)
currently closed to all traffic due to Virgin fluid spillage on runway. Nothing diverted to MAN
.... yet but worth keeping an eye on.
Nothing diverted further north than BHX
has took a few, even a Pegasus!
Guess only EK
15 will come our way but strange how closed airports always open just in time for EK
(must be a mean T&Cs!!)
Apparently now using the disused 26R/08L for departures
Aircraft now making approaches so looks like things are moving.
just for info Bournemouth got 5 x BA
A319 and 2 x EZY
Looks like the Vueling is off to BHX
after holding due to snow
When I saw him holding, I assumed we were snow closed, but a/c have been taking off in the last half hour. Was reported breaking action an issue?
bad call by someone somewhere I think!
We've had 7 hours of heavy snowfall here in Stockport and it's still coming down.
I'm surprised how well the airport has managed, they're doing a great job.
Yes, the met office were originally saying the snow would be a problem over 200m and not at lower levels. Not the first time they've been wrong with MAN
It's been mainly wet snow so not sticking on roads (and runways) as much as it might have done given the intensity at times. The MAN
temperature has stuck stubbornly at 0, whereas even LBA
now has 2 degrees and light rain.
Looks like the rearrangement of the same number of stands can't come soon enough judging by the number of available stands this lunchtime!
I don't think the deicers can cope with this sustained snow fall inevitably.
Just heard a guy live on Sky News, been on a plane (Jet2) since 0930 this morning, waiting to go to Budapest.
reporter has just said there are departure delays at MAN
due to a shortage of de-icer.
Please tell me the BBC
has got it wrong. The forecasters may have underestimated the amount of snow at low levels and for temperatures to be higher, but the risk of snow was there.
As a follow up to EmmasDad my wife boarded Thomas Cook flight to Tenerife this morning at 9.20am.and remained on board uuntil 16.40 pm when all passengers were disembarked. During this time the flight underwent 2 crew changes. The flight is now expected to depart at 21.30pm, a delay of 12 hours.
Has finally departed 22.00pm.
Why was it single runway operations?
During conditions of poor visibility (as experienced during the persistent snowfall yesterday) Manchester goes into LVP's [Low Visibility Procedures]. These procedures restrict the airport to single runway operations to satisfy safety criteria. In addition, it is probably more practical to keep one runway fully de-iced and clear of snow than two.
Sorry I should have quoted post 54 which I understand was fog related and resulted in 90 minute departure delays. I can understand LVP results in arrival delays due to spacing but why should it affect use of the departure runway? After 15 years it seems the airport management have still not really embraced the dual runway concept and revert to single runway ops for economic reasons at every opportunity. Volume of traffic will surely force the issue eventually but not before countless numbers of people have suffered avoidable and unnecessary delays. Do dual runway airports regularly shut down half their runway capacity during LVP's?
Single runway ops during LVP's isn't a choice. It is a safety requirement mandated by ICAO regulations. Manchester's two runways are staggered close parallels which means they are deemed to be 'dependant'. During conditions of low visibility the rules require them to be treated as one runway for separation purposes. Hence only the one can be used. You will find that other airports which are permitted to use two runways in LVP's will have a different layout with a much greater lateral distance between the two parallels such that they are not deemed 'dependant'. MAG has no discretion in this.
With reference to single runway ops during quieter periods, different considerations are in play. ATC staff must receive statutory breaks during their working hours. There are prescribed limits defining how long an ATCO is permitted to work without a break. The runway closures allow for these breaks to be accommodated. Without them, MAG would have to pay for a higher staff complement of ATCO's to operate legally. Staffing of the South Side fire station is also important to all this ... I'm not familiar with their rostering arrangements, but they must staff two fire stations during dual ops. The time is coming when dual ops will persist throughout daytime hours, but the business case must be there for that to happen. That will be determined by sustained additional demand for runway slots in the off-peak to offset the considerable extra expense of employing more staff.
Thank you for the explanation. I did not know that the close parallels were deemed dependant in this situation. Philadelphia must be the same. Do you forsee a change in this due to technology?
As a passenger yes please employ more ATCO's, fire, snow clearing etc to keep both runways open to minimise delays at all times, provide additional redundency and recovery from any sort of incident (pot holes, a/c emergencies) and generally maximise the asset. Put the price on my ticket.
Hi Dave. I wouldn't expect any significant changes to the LVP's operation in the medium term. Another consideration at MAN
is that all aircraft using 23L/05R have to cross 23R/05L. This would be a major hassle in fog even if the rules permitted it and would probably require even larger gaps. Probably more trouble than it is worth.
With regard to regular ops I too look forward to all-day dual runway ops running from early until late. It may actually come quite soon. But the cost of providing this is ultimately passed on to the airlines and they must be willing to pay for the enhanced service. Of course, if there is a large increase in movements the costs will be spread between more customers, so no doubt MAG has a spreadsheet showing the financial trigger points at which this makes sense. What we have to keep in mind is that the highly-trained professional staff required for these additional roles don't come cheap, and whilst you have indicated a willingness to pay more for a higher-quality operation many others will not. Some will favour increased convenience, others will favour keeping prices to a minimum.
I certainly agree about all day dual ops. It puzzles me that in the interests of attracting more premium punters the airport does not up their game in many aspects of service. They appear quite happy to bungle along with a rather mediocre 'Tesco Value' output, based not on the major full service carriers which populate the tarmac, but on the low cost airlines.
Regarding LVP and crossing traffic are advances in ground movement radar not taken into account? And with arrival gaps being longer in LVP would this not allow for safer crossing and much more economical taxiing than to the 23R hold?
Use of ground movement radar is not the only factor. In some cases, whilst it is available as an aid to ATC, rules prohibit it from being used to provide separation between aircraft absent additional verification. Another factor is that during LVP's the integrity of the ILS signal is sacrosanct. A large aircraft (such as an A380) crossing the runway can under some circumstances cause the localiser signal to fluctuate (speaking generally, not of MAN
in particular). This is simply an unacceptable risk in LVP conditions. Any crossing aircraft would have to vacate the runway whilst the next inbound was a loooooong way out. In reality, probably just not worth it. LVP rules are uncompromising with good reason.
Sorry - double post.
This is very interesting. Thank you again for the informed answers.
You're very welcome.
PR-SFB Falcon diverted in around 0830hrs
G-EUYM just landed BFS
2 diverting in. happy days!
A321 also diverting in DUB LH
Ryanair diverting in from EMA
ZK-OKN was NZ
2 just landed
97 is on MAN
N831MH next to divert in due around 1045
Well that was fun!
0830- PR-SFB Dassault Falcon 2000 - - Gander Biggin Hill
0940- G-EUYM Airbus A.320-200 British Airways SHT88F
1005- G-EUXM Airbus A.321-200 British Airways BAW
38DB Dublin Heathrow
1007- ZK-OKN Boeing B.777-300ER Air New Zealand ANZ
2 Los Angeles Heathrow
1015- EI-EFZ Boeing B.737-800(WL) Ryanair RYR
4589 Alicante East Midlands
1052- N831MH Boeing B.767-400ER Delta Air Lines DAL
403 New York JFK
Just to finish this off, AMS
(2) & STN
put all their heavy metal into CWL
including a 380 into the latter.
Sorry to sound stupid, what was the reason behind the diverts, was Heathrow shut.
Low visibility procedures due fog were already slowing arrivals down and then departing AA
87 had to return with engine problems. Priority approach and runway had to be swept. Really clogged the system up for a while. CFMU still saying:
Arrivals regulated due to weather (recovering from earlier low vis).
Couple of BA
diverts from LGW
during the night - A320 G-MIDS and A319 G-DBCD
12 from SIN
heading in, A380 G-XLEC after 2 go-arounds
3 northbound divs: UA
110 N660UA AA
100 N726AN and BA
100 N726AN 773ER heading here, as maybe MH
2 A380 9H-MNF
110 B767 N660UA looks promising heading northwest over the midlands at 16000ft after holding LHR
for a while.
2 A380 9MMNF, AAL
100 B77W N726AA and BA
40F B744 GBYGC also appear to have given up and headingin a northerly direction !
322 wanting to divert to MAN
would make it 3 x A380's not sure we can take 3?
322 showing on the MAN
board as confirmed. Special livery A380
9V-SKI is the frame
G-CIVW in the DAYNE approach too, B744 of BA
40F B744 GBYGC went to NCL
. However AAL
174 B763 N381AN also on approach along with the SQ
A380 and the BA
106 B744 GCIVW.
142 GVIIS B772 also heading northwest at this stage
G-VROS diverting in from LGW
G-VIIW 772ER from Gatwick BA
G-EUXE A321 BA
935 just on approach, flew all the way from Biggin Hill squawking 7700